---

Home Forums New posts Search forums Archive What's new New posts New media New media comments New profile posts Latest activity Tickets Members Registered members Current visitors Mileage 2017 Mileage competition entry 2018 Mileage competition entry 2019 Mileage competition entry 2020 Mileage competition entry 2021 Mileage competition entry 2022 Mileage competition entry New profile posts Search profile posts Log in Register What's new Search New posts Search forums Archive Menu Log in Register Install the app Install Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread ! Home Forums Fares, Ticketing & Routeing Fares Advice & Policy You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser .

Trial of of paper receipts for tickets issued on board the train

Thread starter Bungle73 Start date 2 Jun 2016 Status Not open for further replies. Prev 1 2 3 4 …

Go to page

Go 7 Next First Prev 2 of 7

Go to page

Go Next Last 2 Jun 2016 #31

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member

Joined 12 Sep 2013 Messages 14,342 Location Isle of Man 61653 HTAFC said: Must have been WAY before that, I'm thinking pre- Serco/Abellio, maybe even pre-privatisation. Click to expand
It's not that long ago, Northern Spirit/Arriva were definitely still issuing them in summer 2002. Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register , or click here to log in R

RailUK Forums

2 Jun 2016 #32 H

hairyhandedfool

Established Member

Joined 14 Apr 2008 Messages 8,837 AM9 said: . ISTR that APTIS was the fixed ticket printing machine in booking offices and PORTIS was the Guard carried version using a yellow glossy paper ticket roll. Click to expand
Some smaller stations also used PORTIS/SPORTIS.

Neil Williams said: Correct, there was also the enhanced version called SPORTIS (Super Portable Ticket Issuing System). I forget what was super about it - possibly card acceptance? Click to expand
Yep, card payments were not possible with PORTIS.

Arctic Troll said: It's not that long ago, Northern Spirit/Arriva were definitely still issuing them in summer 2002. Click to expand
I received SPORTIS training when I joined Northern Rail in 2006. 2 Jun 2016 #33 A

adrock1976

Established Member

Joined 10 Dec 2013 Messages 4,450 Location What s it called? It s called Cumbernauld I remember the PORTIS style tickets issued on the train in the WMPTE area back in the late 1980s/early 1990s.

Furthermore, I have in my collection one from 1989 between Broad Lane (the last station in the WMPTE area) and Hednesford when I took a spin on that line not long after it reopened to passenger services. It was a 2 car Class 115 that operated the shuttle between Walsall and Hednesford back then. 2 Jun 2016 #34

HMS Ark Royal

Established Member

Joined 2 Sep 2015 Messages 2,798 Location Hull 61653 HTAFC said: Must have been WAY before that, I'm thinking pre- Serco/Abellio, maybe even pre-privatisation. I do remember those tickets vaguely though. Think the last one I got was a child ticket issued by the guard on a 141- that gives an idea of how long ago it was! Click to expand
I remember seeing them issued on Hull - York services as late as June 2005 which would just be inside the Northern Rail franchise 2 Jun 2016 #35

Starmill

Veteran Member

Joined 18 May 2012 Messages 24,649 Location Bolton I don't think there is any evidence that these tickets will be issued anywhere other than on the train or from mobile revenue operations? We have a thread discussing this already. Fundamentally Avantix is in urgent need of replacement, these will form a part of that replacement. This ought not to be too much of a surprise. 2 Jun 2016 #36

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator

Joined 9 Aug 2009 Messages 15,268 Location Llanelli I don't mind if the tickets issued on board use a similar type of paper as PORTIS or SPORTIS did.

I don't feel quite so happy about it being on flimsy paper like I get when I go on a bus these days. Many train tickets have a longer life and a higher value than a bus ticket. They deserve to be stronger and more durable. 2 Jun 2016 #37 L

lyndhurst25

Established Member

Joined 26 Nov 2010 Messages 1,478 History repeating itself. Who remembers the flimsy little square Almex bus-style tickets that you used to get on PayTrains in the 1970s and 80s?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/loose_grip_99/2312764823/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/loose_grip_99/2314356488/in/photostream/ Last edited: 2 Jun 2016 2 Jun 2016 #38 J

JonathanH

Veteran Member

Joined 29 May 2011 Messages 20,652 swt_passenger said: So what sort of 'stored balance' would you expect people to need on a national rail ITSO PAYG system, so that the correct fare could be deducted at the destination? Click to expand
Potentially unnecessary if the processing is done in a back office (like it is for contactless payments in London) and you have to pass through a gate to exit the station.

However, it would require a massive amendment to the fare structure. 2 Jun 2016 #39 A

ag51ruk

Member

Joined 29 Oct 2014 Messages 629 AM9 said: I seem to remember that APTIS and PORTIS were introduced in the '70s following the large airline style tickets for Inter-City journeys. ISTR that APTIS was the fixed ticket printing machine in booking offices and PORTIS was the Guard carried version using a yellow glossy paper ticket roll. Click to expand
Mid 80s - before that some stations had the INTIS system which produced similar sized tickets to APTIS but on pre-printed ticket stock. The difference between PORTIS and SPORTIS was the addition of the credit card swipe reader in the side I think - don't think PORTIS could take cards.

PORTIS was portable ticket issuing system, SPORTIS Super portable , APTIS All Purpose ticket issuing system and INTIS Intermediate Ticket Issuing System Last edited: 2 Jun 2016 2 Jun 2016 #40 C

Clip

Established Member

Joined 28 Jun 2010 Messages 10,822 hairyhandedfool said: This style of ticket?


Picture found on Google. Click to expand

OOh I remember them

I don't understand peoples aversion to this - you get a ticket on a bit of paper and you fold it and put it in your wallet, just like you do with your orange ticket now. Don't think anyone has said anything sensible as a reason against this. 2 Jun 2016 #41

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member

Joined 17 Apr 2011 Messages 33,783 Location A semi-rural part of north-west England Noting the ever-increasing serried ranks of ticket barrier units at railway stations that have been installed, how much trouble would it take to convert their mechanisms to accept the stated paper tickets? 2 Jun 2016 #42

yorksrob

Veteran Member

Joined 6 Aug 2009 Messages 40,929 Location Yorks Neil Williams said: A more flexible, cheaper, faster paper ticketing system.



They lost their nerve, sadly. We could have moved to a system of BACS transfers replacing cheques (i.e. push rather than pull). The Germans have done it for years; most of them don't even know what a cheque is.

It's 2016, there is no need whatsoever for any kind of administration to involve the post. The post is now for shifting goods around. Click to expand
I don't see what's faster and more flexible about it. The current machines can churn out a ticket perfectly quickly which can sit in my wallet.

As for cheques, I find them far and away the most convenient way to pay for railtours, the window cleaner and people to replace missing slates. 2 Jun 2016 #43 H

hairyhandedfool

Established Member

Joined 14 Apr 2008 Messages 8,837 Paul Sidorczuk said: Noting the ever-increasing serried ranks of ticket barrier units at railway stations that have been installed, how much trouble would it take to convert their mechanisms to accept the stated paper tickets? Click to expand
Depends on the barrier. These tickets will, apparently, have a printed barcode to use, so the ticket barriers will need a barcode scanner, software to use the barcode scanner and the right programming logic to act according to the information on the barcode.

It will also be necessary to what's the right word? . 'educate' passengers in the art of scanning a ticket rather than trying to squeeze it into the slot for card tickets. 2 Jun 2016 #44

David Goddard

Established Member

Joined 8 Aug 2011 Messages 1,504 Location Reading My main concern is the durability. Bus operators have been using thermal printed tickets for about ten years now, and these are fine to put away once, and then get out again for the return trip, but too much handling, like for a day ticket, and the inevitable folding to fit into a wallet, results in the paper creasing and the print quickly degrading.
With a train ticket which you have to get out and handle at the start and end of each journey, and during for inspections, it will soon get creased or torn and we will run into problems like you tore it so its invalid coming from RPIs
The silver lining, I am pleased to see, is that as they are scanned at barriers as opposed to inserted and potentially swallowed, it will be easier to retain for expenses or personal records.
It will be the same problem that we are seeing with shop receipts- I have a receipt for an appliance I bought less than a year ago which has been kept in a drawer but completely faded - not much use for a guarantee! 2 Jun 2016 #45 D

dave87016

Established Member

Joined 9 Dec 2008 Messages 1,792 Location Lancashire I think the tickets and machines may be similar to the ones that the conductors have on Blackpool Trams 2 Jun 2016 #46 S

sefyllian

Member

Joined 14 Jan 2013 Messages 103 Paul Sidorczuk said: Noting the ever-increasing serried ranks of ticket barrier units at railway stations that have been installed, how much trouble would it take to convert their mechanisms to accept the stated paper tickets? Click to expand
At least some of the barriers at Cardiff Central have already been converted, for the trial on the Valley Lines. There's a square glass panel attached to the front of the barrier where you place your ticket to scan it.

I'm all in favour – it does seem like it will make buying tickets easier. Bear in mind the scanner can read codes off anything, not just receipt-style tickets – eg. smartphone screens and presumably tickets that you could print off yourself at home.

Arriva Trains Wales already have a smartphone app which I use fairly regularly to buy tickets. You can buy tickets whenever you like, then activate them just before going through the barrier. The screen shows a barcode (which I guess can open the barriers, but haven't tried it yet), and also a pulsing colour bar to show to staff if there's no scanner (I've used this method several times with no bother).

You can also buy virtual carnets to store on your phone for a discounted price.

It's all very easy, and totally eliminates queueing at the dreadfully slow ticket machines. 2 Jun 2016 #47

Crossover

Established Member

Joined 4 Jun 2009 Messages 9,364 Location Yorkshire WelshBluebird said: I wonder what their solution for through tickets is though?
Back in January (when this trial was supposed to initially start) I asked and no one at ATW could answer what I should do if I wanted a through ticket. Click to expand
The way I understood it (this was from a conversation with a guard) through tickets would be available, but that the majority of tickets bought on those trains are for travel within the Valleys. My understanding may be off, though 2 Jun 2016 #48 J

jon0844

Veteran Member

Joined 1 Feb 2009 Messages 28,962 Location UK The barcode readers look like something that you can just ask Cubic to fit to their existing gates (most stations use them it seems) so besides the cost, it seems like a pretty easy modification.

King's Cross have them and when I got an excess ticket with an Aztec code printed on it, I should have tried scanning it at the gate to see what happened.. 2 Jun 2016 #49

trainophile

Established Member

Joined 28 Oct 2010 Messages 6,503 Location Wherever I lay my hat I agree with concerns about the print fading, particularly if you have bought an Advance ticket three months ago.

Also, while I don't fancy A4 sized tickets as I generally keep them in a dedicated slot in my purse (or a ticket wallet, which will presumably become redundant), if they are only the size of a bus ticket they would be easy to lose in a pocket or handbag.

Change for the sake of it? 2 Jun 2016 #50

Wallsendmag

Established Member

Joined 11 Dec 2014 Messages 5,559 Location Wallsend or somewhere in GB jonmorris0844 said: The barcode readers look like something that you can just ask Cubic to fit to their existing gates (most stations use them it seems) so besides the cost, it seems like a pretty easy modification.

King's Cross have them and when I got an excess ticket with an Aztec code printed on it, I should have tried scanning it at the gate to see what happened.. Click to expand

Nothing would have happened 2 Jun 2016 #51 M

Marklund

Member

Joined 18 Nov 2010 Messages 827 And if they go near any heat source, the paper blackens.
That'll be handy 2 Jun 2016 #52

PaxVobiscum

Established Member

Joined 4 Feb 2012 Messages 2,403 Location Glasgow http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/01/orange-train-tickets-to-be-replaced-by-shop-style-paper-receipts/ said: Scotrail and Great Western Railway are also believed to be rolling out new types of ticketing this year as companies aim to make travelling more flexible. Click to expand
I was asked to participate in a survey on behalf of ScotRail today

ScotRail is busy developing the next-generation of train ticket to be easier, faster and allow more flexible travel by train and we would like to invite you to help.

Why not click on the survey link below and help steer ScotRail in the right direction?
(link removed)
The survey should take around 8 minutes to complete. We look forward to your views and opinions! Click to expand
If was all about ScotRail's SmartCard though, not paper tickets instead of the standard orange card tickets. 3 Jun 2016 #53

Bungle73

On Moderation

Joined 19 Aug 2011 Messages 3,040 Location Kent I often buy a ticket on the train because my nearest station has no facilities (assuming they actually bother to come round, which they often don't, but that's a whole other story). With this new big idea it seems that if I want to purchase a Travelcard, I'm back to having to mess about at a ticket office getting it swapped for a proper card ticket that will work the barriers in London. I thought I'd seen the back of that when they did away with the previous paper tickets, mentioned earlier, a few years ago

What a hassle.

David Goddard said: It will be the same problem that we are seeing with shop receipts- I have a receipt for an appliance I bought less than a year ago which has been kept in a drawer but completely faded - not much use for a guarantee! Click to expand
A common misconception. You don't need a receipt to return a faulty item; all you need is a proof of purchase. 3 Jun 2016 #54

HMS Ark Royal

Established Member

Joined 2 Sep 2015 Messages 2,798 Location Hull Bungle73 said: A common misconception. You don't need a receipt to return a faulty item; all you need is a proof of purchase. Click to expand
Does that work with Governments too ?

Personally, I hope the trial fails and we stick with card tickets 3 Jun 2016 #55

Starmill

Veteran Member

Joined 18 May 2012 Messages 24,649 Location Bolton You hope we stick with obsolete equipment? You do understand that this effectively means it can no longer be repaired I take it. Therefore, this would eventually mean no more tickets could be issued on trains 3 Jun 2016 #56

HMS Ark Royal

Established Member

Joined 2 Sep 2015 Messages 2,798 Location Hull Starmill said: You hope we stick with obsolete equipment? You do understand that this effectively means it can no longer be repaired I take it. Therefore, this would eventually mean no more tickets could be issued on trains Click to expand
I do indeed - I don't like the thought of bus ticket style stuff being used on trains 3 Jun 2016 #57 W

WelshBluebird

Established Member

Joined 14 Jan 2010 Messages 5,159 Starmill said: You hope we stick with obsolete equipment? You do understand that this effectively means it can no longer be repaired I take it. Therefore, this would eventually mean no more tickets could be issued on trains Click to expand
Wanting to keep card tickets does not equal wanting to keep obsolete technology / equipment.

No one here is complaining because the trial uses newer equipment or technology. The problem is that the paper receipt like tickets will not be fit for the purpose they will be used for (because they will be too flimsy).

There is no reason at all why new equipment cannot be developed with card tickets in mind. 3 Jun 2016 #58

HMS Ark Royal

Established Member

Joined 2 Sep 2015 Messages 2,798 Location Hull WelshBluebird said: Wanting to keep card tickets does not equal wanting to keep obsolete technology / equipment.

No one here is complaining because the trial uses newer equipment or technology. The problem is that the paper receipt like tickets will not be fit for the purpose they will be used for (because they will be too flimsy).

There is no reason at all why new equipment cannot be developed with card tickets in mind. Click to expand
I quite agree 3 Jun 2016 #59 R

rs101

Member

Joined 13 Aug 2013 Messages 356 WelshBluebird said: Wanting to keep card tickets does not equal wanting to keep obsolete technology / equipment.

No one here is complaining because the trial uses newer equipment or technology. The problem is that the paper receipt like tickets will not be fit for the purpose they will be used for (because they will be too flimsy).

There is no reason at all why new equipment cannot be developed with card tickets in mind. Click to expand
By using standard paper though, there are almost certainly many off the shelf printers available from the likes of Zebra. Much easier and than having to develop custom hardware for unique paper size and type.

I'd have thought a logical solution would be to use paper tickets for singles/returns/ one day tickets plus a smart card and app for season tickets.


As for the barcode scanners, they sound very like the system which Eurostar has been using for years. That seems to work we!l enough with both print at home and normal tickets. 3 Jun 2016 #60

Starmill

Veteran Member

Joined 18 May 2012 Messages 24,649 Location Bolton WelshBluebird said: Wanting to keep card tickets does not equal wanting to keep obsolete technology / equipment. Click to expand
Although hoping that the trials fail does effectively equate to that. Or are you suggesting that that is a practical response?

WelshBluebird said: No one here is complaining because the trial uses newer equipment or technology. The problem is that the paper receipt like tickets will not be fit for the purpose they will be used for (because they will be too flimsy). Click to expand
Hm. I think you might want to have a closer read of someone's posts!

WelshBluebird said: There is no reason at all why new equipment cannot be developed with card tickets in mind. Click to expand
Absolutely, I'd prefer that too. Indeed, if we aren't having other wholesale changes I find it a bit strange we're going for a whole other load of different ways of issuing and designing tickets, but then such is 'mother railway' Prev 1 2 3 4 …

Go to page

Go 7 Next First Prev 2 of 7

Go to page

Go Next Last Status Not open for further replies. Share: Facebook Twitter Share Link
Home Forums Fares, Ticketing & Routeing Fares Advice & Policy RailUK Forums Contact us Terms and rules Privacy policy Help Home RSS Community platform by XenForo ® © 2010-2022 XenForo Ltd. Top